Podcast Transcript | Ep. 71
Navigating Self-Improvement and Overcoming Victimhood with Andrew Daniel
Navigating Self-Improvement and Overcoming Victimhood with Andrew Daniel | Ep. 71
[00:00:00] Brandon Ward: Hello, and welcome to Order Within, navigating a world of endless chaos and crisis. Many of us are experiencing inner turmoil, insecurity, anxiety, fears, and isolation. These feelings are only being amplified by new cycles social media, and never ending political madness. How do we find our way out of the chaos?
[00:00:24] How do we find strength within ourselves? How do we find meaning in a world driven by materialism? These questions and many more I aim to answer on the show. My goal is to be a trusted guide on your journey to selfhood. May you find what you seek.
[00:00:42] Hello and welcome everyone. I'm your host, Brandon Ward, back with another episode of Order Within. Today, I'm excited, we have a wonderful guest, Andrew Daniel. He is continuing, he's a part of this early journey of the discussions component that I'm adding in here to Order Within. [00:01:00] I feel very fortunate to have him as a guest.
[00:01:03] He is... A, an award winning author here, spiritual teacher, and director at the Center for Cynosomatic Development. Andrew is the founder of Cynosomatics, a feeling based therapy utilizing video feedback and movement to assess and resolve stuck, somatic, psychological, and emotional patterns. His latest book
[00:01:26] Awaken to your true self. Is a recipient of the 2022 gold nautilus book awards this definitive guide helps self aware entrepreneurs artists professionals and leaders break through Stuck cycles and genuinely wake up.
[00:01:40] Andrew, welcome my friend.
[00:01:42] Andrew Daniel: Thanks for having me, Brandon.
[00:01:44] Brandon Ward: Yeah, of course, man. That, um, you know, Andrew, I wasn't, uh, you sent me a copy of your book.
[00:01:50] I'm new to your work, which is, and it's, you know, we had a great chat, uh, I guess a week or so ago before we met initially, um, really vibe with just your general presence [00:02:00] and, and you seem to be a very authentic person to me, just the way you carry yourself, the way you communicate. And it really spoke to me a lot in your, your work.
[00:02:08] You know, I've read, like yourself, We're at a ton of self help and kind of been in this space for many and many years. Um, your origin story to your pursuit of of self development is is similarly driven in the sense that I was very Unsatisfied with myself experience bullying a lot of the things so there's a lot of common ties between our stories Which i'm excited to talk about today but I got a long list of notes that I was taking as i've been reading through your book and and because there's a lot to cover and so I'd like to, if you're good, like, well, for you, you've been at this for how many years now?
[00:02:48] Andrew Daniel: Fifteen.
[00:02:50] Brandon Ward: Yeah, that's what I, which is wild. And one of the things that I really love is you didn't take a traditional path. You didn't go, you know, you don't have some PhD. You didn't go to like some exclusive [00:03:00] schools. You know, you're not, you're not an elite PhD person or anything like that. Um, your, your, your work has primarily been driven by your own experiences and the things that you've learned.
[00:03:12] So, let's kind of start there, to give the audience a sense of what that means for you. I read your story, obviously, but I'd love to hear, kind of, you know, from your perspective, how this all began. I know it started with warts, if I remember correctly, about your story.
[00:03:27] Andrew Daniel: Literally.
[00:03:33] So in the beginning, um, yeah, I, when I was young, I had, I had warts on my fingers even before then I, um, I had a biological father and there was some, there was abuse and legal things and courts and attempted kidnappings. And I mean, there was, you know, mafia. I mean, it was, this is all before I was three years old.[00:04:00]
[00:04:00] So, yeah, great start, um, but you know, I, I had my mother who loved me and, um, a stepfather who came into picture and took care of us. Uh, and then we moved and I started school and when I started first grade, uh, that was when I started to be bullied and it was cause I had warts on my fingers and the long story short is that led to about 12 years of being bullied.
[00:04:33] Being made fun of, uh, rejection, ostracization, and I really took on that victim identity. And that created a lot of suffering. You know, by the time I was in high school, you know, sitting alone at lunch, people throwing food at me, tripping me in the halls, you know, kind of the stuff you see in those 80s or 90s [00:05:00] teen, uh, nerd movies.
[00:05:02] That was literally my life. And But during high school, you know, I, I didn't get the girl, I didn't have the big, you know, comeback or anything during high school that, that took many years of healing afterwards to get there. Um, but yeah, so I, I suffered a lot, um, and I, a lot of that suffering was self inflicted because now I know I, I made all of that stuff mean stuff about me.
[00:05:31] But at the time, I was just... wondering why, you know, why me? What, what did I do to deserve all these people hating me? Um, and that led me to being very dark, very angry, very depressed. You know, I thought of suicide. I thought of shooting up the school. You know, I, I thought of really, really dark things cause I was in a lot of pain and that set me to A point where [00:06:00] I either said, you know, I, I either end this because this just sucks.
[00:06:06] I don't want to live a whole life like this or I do whatever it takes to figure this out. And as I say, the truth is I was pretty chicken to take my own life. Yeah, it didn't sound very fun. It didn't sound like it would fix anything. So my other option was to do whatever it takes, whatever it took to figure it out.
[00:06:29] And so that set me on a journey of self help and personal development. And I literally. I remember getting on onto Google, this is maybe 2003 or so, and I typed in, you know, how to be cool, how to make friends, you know, how to get girls to like to, you know, how do you talk to girls at school? And I was just so desperate, um, but that desperation actually motivated me to do something about it.[00:07:00]
[00:07:00] And so that set me on a journey for the next 16, 17, 18 years of all sorts of. All sorts of stuff, you know, I started a software company at 18 because I was a nerd, because I didn't have friends. I learned programming and design on computers and everything. And so a lot of the things that cursed me ended up being my gifts later on in life.
[00:07:25] But while they were cursing me, they were still curse. And, uh, I started a software company. I got into personal development, self help. I took a lot of different trainings. That eventually led me on a path of spiritual discovery and all sorts of transformations from there on out. So we could talk further about what all that stuff is and was, but that essentially was the origin story.
[00:07:52] You know, all of that pain and suffering led me to do whatever it took. Uh, to figure this out,
[00:07:59] Brandon Ward: [00:08:00] you know, it's, it's, I think that's one of the things that hits me deep with you, Andrew, is the, the desperation component because I've, that was my motivation was desperation. And I've also been at the, the, the precipice of my life is suffering.
[00:08:16] I can't tolerate it anymore. I either need to end it. Like you were describing, you know, it's or something has to drastically change and, and when we find ourselves in those moments that desperation really can be motivation candidate. And, and I'm thankful because it's led you to where you are and I think the work that you're doing is so needed.
[00:08:38] In our world today, man. I mean, in, in, because what we're going to talk about today really is, is effectively the how to awaken to your true self, the whole concept that your book is built around, but more so not necessarily so much the how to of it. You you've got a, there's a lot of techniques and things that you do in your work that is incredible.
[00:08:54] I'm learning about it as I'm reading through your work here, but I think more so. Really [00:09:00] unpacking that concept of a true self and what that means. And from what I've found, when you talk to people about this, there's a struggle to understand what that actually is and. And I've found in my own personal journey is that that gap between our authenticity and, uh, the ego itself or the image self, whatever it is, the projected self persona, exactly the however large or small that gap is basically the larger the gap is, the more suffering we tend to experience.
[00:09:32] And I felt that too. And so I love that your journey was. Was built around your own suffering. And so you've had to, you had to figure this out. It was either I'm going to die because this sucks, hate living, or I'm going to do something ruthless. And, and you also mentioned too, that they're like on this journey of healing and, and, and really, and you mentioned in your book, it's, it's recognizing that we're whole now it's, it's, it's kind of letting go of the concept that we need to fix ourselves.
[00:09:59] [00:10:00] The trap of fixing can be very problematic because ultimately. What it comes down to is really just radically accepting who we are, everything, warts and all, no pun intended, right? Like that's, that's the, the game, but, but that's hard because society, culture pushes us, right? To, to, to think we need to behave certain ways.
[00:10:20] And, and so, but one of the things that I loved, if we can just kind of get into it a little bit, cause some of those pieces that you mentioned in your origin story are going to come up. As we talk about
[00:10:29] Andrew Daniel: some of the concepts, obviously, that's, I mean, that's, that's how I learned all this stuff because all this stuff is stuff I dealt with in my own life.
[00:10:38] You know, everything I write in the book, um, is something I've personally gone through myself or something like it. You know, we all have different flavors of it. You know, I give a lot of examples and different metaphors. I didn't have certain kinds of abuses and stuff I've had. Some abuse, you know, I've had certain things and things [00:11:00] around victimhood, uh, narcissism, the fixing our stories being stuck.
[00:11:05] All of these things are things that I've dealt with myself and we're able to, we're able to overcome or at least overcome enough that I'm no longer in that. Same suffering. And so I think that's one of the things that makes my work different because well two things one Is because I've gone through it myself and I've healed it, you know, I'm not perfect You know, I'm not on a pedestal or anything, but I've been on a journey and I've done the work, you know for 15 to 20 years I've been doing this and a lot of therapists or coaches or writers haven't necessarily done that.
[00:11:47] I think a lot of times they just learn something, then repackage it and put their name on it and you can feel that it's kind of empty. Um, and then the second thing. Is that I'm actually a practitioner. I'm not [00:12:00] just a writer. I didn't just do this myself. I actually facilitate hundreds of people Going through this process and actually helping them with this stuff because sometimes You can have a breakthrough you can have an awakening You don't necessarily know how to teach that and help other people do it and so that's those are kind of the reasons why I think that My work lands a bit different.
[00:12:26] Why it tends to be more helpful than other stuff because of those two things. Well, I
[00:12:32] Brandon Ward: noticed that in, in your work is you were, you're pulling from all different types of wisdom perspectives. I mean, ancient wisdom, modern wisdom, modern thinkers, ancient, like various religions. I mean, you really are pulling from a, from a lot of.
[00:12:47] Different pieces. One of the ones that really stood out to me that I love specifically was the Joseph Campbell quote about Life has no meaning we are the meaning like we create the meaning of it And that really hits deep for me because it [00:13:00] is a trap how thinking things are outside of ourselves Like we're looking for meaning, you know out here out there Really?
[00:13:06] It's like we are the thing that creates the meaning it comes from us and that's your concept of true self This is what I talk about so much on my show is the same is that we are the answer all of this is within us And but when I first started on this journey, and i'm curious like what your perspective is I didn't understand what the hell that meant like when when it's like happiness is within you like what the what the fuck?
[00:13:28] Does that even mean? Like because it's it's like I'm not happy right now. So it's not in me, you know Like initially and you get you can get angry and frustrated by all these Uh kind of coffee table statements that is the self help industry is full of right platitudes. Yep Um, but over time you you start to once you practice it because I think it's important You said that too is is this is a practice and though we do the work.
[00:13:56] We're never done. We're always We're always evolving, [00:14:00] moving, shaping, but to your point, man, like, I don't, you don't share insights. You don't make deep impact on your own life and the life of others unless you walk this path. You have to do this work yourself and what worked for someone else may not work for you.
[00:14:14] Which is what I appreciate about what you do is you're offering a variety of tools. Maybe this doesn't resonate but this might and so I love that about it. It's not like, this is my thing and this is how you do it. And if you don't follow me, then you're an idiot. You know, which there's a lot of that, you know, there
[00:14:30] Andrew Daniel: is.
[00:14:31] Oh, I know. But so I think I followed some of them and it didn't work. Oh
[00:14:36] Brandon Ward: man. I, I was trapped in this. I mean, you, you talk about. Your addiction to self help. I was definitely I had a period of my life where I was very addicted to self help. Like it's easy to get trapped in the concept of reading and reading material to replace that with action.
[00:14:52] You start
[00:14:52] Andrew Daniel: hiding out in it. Exactly,
[00:14:55] Brandon Ward: but that's not you and I both know that that's not the case. And I think that's a good lead way [00:15:00] into you. You look at the five levels of change, which I hadn't. This was the first time I had seen anybody frame it together like this. And and The way you ordered it was kind of like mind blowing to me.
[00:15:12] There were many points when I was reading your book that I wish I like I had your number. I was going to text you cause I would, but I'm like, you know, when Andrew's a busy dude, I'll just talk to him when we talk. But, um, the, the five levels of change, let's talk a little bit about that. Right. So you got, I, Identity, feeling, belief, attitude, and behavior.
[00:15:31] And so you're the, this is, you created this stuff. So maybe I don't want to, but like, I love the way you, like most people start with behavior change and then work their way up, but behavior change is actually the easiest, but it has the least impact on us longterm. So maybe we can kind of talk a little bit about that.
[00:15:52] Yeah,
[00:15:52] Andrew Daniel: so the, the hierarchy of change basically kind of talks about, um, [00:16:00] you know, at what level can you put in an amount of effort to get the most amount of change? So the hierarchy of change, and I never really said it this way in the book, but it's kind of about leverage, right? You can put in x units. of energy to walk and you'll go so far.
[00:16:19] You'll put in x units, the same x amount into bicycling and you'll go a lot farther. You'll put that x unit into a car, you'll go a lot farther, right? Time, whatever that unit is, probably not fuel, but time, something like that. And so, What, what I put in there is this hierarchy is that most people go to these behaviors or attitudes, right?
[00:16:44] This is the motivation, right? Motivation is about an attitude, positive psychology. It's about reframing, thinking it, thinking about it differently, behaviors, get up in the morning, do this. How do I say things differently? So it's a hierarchy of change. It [00:17:00] doesn't mean None of them work. It doesn't mean that you abandon all of them, right?
[00:17:05] Because you still have to have a certain attitude. You still have to do certain behaviors. Uh, but what happens is, is that most of the things focus on those behaviors and attitudes because they're the easiest to change. They're the most mass marketable, um, but they have, and they have the most. Well, I, I don't want to say that, but they, they tend to have an immediate feedback.
[00:17:31] You change your identity. You don't get immediate feedback, right? Like I can pick this up. This is a behavior. I changed my identity and it's right crickets more internal, but the amount of change in the longer longterm effect is much bigger. And so it's identity feeling. belief, attitude, chain, uh, behavior.
[00:17:57] The reason that I don't focus a lot on [00:18:00] that, and I'll bring this to the, to the point after we talk about this. Um, and so what, what I realized is that you can. Change the identity, right? There's a difference between not picking up a cigarette versus not liking cigarettes versus your belief around what cigarettes do to you and what it means about yourself then about how you feel about it what's the actual emotional response and then the identity of being a non smoker.
[00:18:35] Those are all going to change. Those are all going to be different, right? Because I have a belief about myself, it's going to change the things below it. If I have an identity, it's going to change all the stuff below it. That's why it's a hierarchy. I'm a non smoker. I don't have beliefs and behaviors.
[00:18:52] Okay, I got to avoid doing this. I can't do it. No, I just don't think about it. It just doesn't, it's just a non issue. But [00:19:00] in order to evoke change at that level, it requires, uh, much deeper. work in reflection. Um, now the, the interesting thing with this whole hierarchy, and it's really funny because a lot of people love it.
[00:19:15] A lot of people are like, Oh, I've never heard of this before. This is amazing. But the reason I put it in the book is to, to move past it. Um, right. So because, because of this, I say this is very helpful to understand, right? Understand this is where change happens and we're working at all of these levels anyway, but this is where most self help and therapy lies.
[00:19:38] It lies still in this hierarchy of change. Our true self lies beyond that hierarchy of change because you can't change your true self. It's eternal. And so it basically says, this is really helpful. Now, let's step beyond it. Right? Because as long as you're living [00:20:00] life. in that place versus getting closer to the true self, you're still caught up in that same dynamic.
[00:20:11] And so the true self lies beyond that hierarchy of change. And so if you say, okay, well, if my true self, who I really am is beyond all of this change, well, and I'm here, my life sucks. Things aren't working. I have to change. What are you saying? I just don't change anything. So this is the paradigm shift, is that rather than adding and fixing in order to improve ourselves, in order to have a better persona, in order to have a better identity, because all of those things are fine, you know, you're going to have beliefs, you're going to have ways you feel about things, you're going to have behaviors, you're egoic identity, that's fine.
[00:20:57] But the more that you work on those levels, [00:21:00] the more... It takes you away from your true self, right? You're adding through all of that adding and fixing. What you're doing is validating the lies that separated you from your true self in the beginning. And so the whole paradigm shifts with this is that this is how we normally approach stuff and it's still helpful.
[00:21:21] It's still good to know this, but this work shifts into stopping and subtraction because If who you really are, if your true self cannot be changed, well then it must be that it's not broken. There's nothing wrong with it. That it has everything it needs. That it is enough. That it is worthy. And if you presuppose that, if you hold that, then what it means is that everything is about subtraction.
[00:21:57] It's about removing all of the things that are [00:22:00] untrue, rather than fixing, because the more you fix, The more it validates the lies that separated to begin with, right? Because if, if you lie, if, if that fundamental lie is that I'm unworthy of love, and then you spend your whole life trying to become worthy of love, yes, you're growing and learning and healing, but it's taking you away from your true self.
[00:22:26] It's, it's literally, even if you get it, even if you say, guess what, I'm finally worthy of love. I did it. Well, that just really solidifies the lie that you were unworthy to begin with. And so even though we're growing and learning and changing and getting unstuck and doing all this stuff in that paradigm, even though our life's improving, there's still suffering because it's still implying that initial lie was true.
[00:22:55] And so this work is, is kind of inverting that. And it's saying that who you really are is [00:23:00] beyond all of this. Yes, all of this stuff, you have the identity, you have the behaviors, you have all these things, but it's about subtracting. It's about healing rather than adding and fixing and being more and doing and achieving all that stuff.
[00:23:14] I love it.
[00:23:15] Brandon Ward: Well, that was what I thought is interesting about it is the, you have the hierarchy of change, but you, and you go through these concepts, but then you're like, that's actually not even the thing, which is great because the thing is that true self, the self that is, as you said, eternal always is.
[00:23:29] And it, what you're describing is also a tenet in a lot of ancient wisdom, is like the, the story of, I, and I'm gonna butcher this, but the teacup, you know, the guy's pouring the teacup, the master or whatever, and he's pouring the teacup, and he keeps pouring, and he overflows, and he's like, what, what are you doing?
[00:23:44] Why, why are you doing that? And he's like, this is you. You're, you're the full, overflowing teacup. You are too full. There's nothing else in there that you can add to that, because you're already overflowing And we're done. Otherwise, we, we'll You need to take away, stop overfilling your cup, [00:24:00] allow your cup to be open so that you can be what you are.
[00:24:02] And I butchered that story, but I'm sure you're aware of what that, or at least familiar with those concepts, but it's, the idea is, to your point, is we're removing the things, we're letting go of the things that are basically clouding out or blocking out our true self expression.
[00:24:19] Andrew Daniel: That are not us. Exactly.
[00:24:20] But we've identified as us. Exactly.
[00:24:23] Brandon Ward: And, and that's what I think is interesting because even when you think change at the identity level compared to these, the, the hierarchy of change is what can be the most impactful, but it's still anchoring us to our human, small, limited identity in many ways. Yeah.
[00:24:40] Andrew Daniel: And, and it. And then we get trapped in the persona, like saying that, you know, I have the identity is, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm an author. Now I use that to, you know, I use that to my advantage in order to get the benefits that those imply. I [00:25:00] identify as an author. That means I show up in a certain way.
[00:25:03] I take that on. I own that. But it's not who I really am. Who I am is beyond being an author. But that identity is helpful. Putting that on is helpful. As long as we know that it's not who we really are. As long as we don't make it mean anything. As long as we're not attached to it. And this is the irony. As long as we don't identify to the identity.
[00:25:28] Brandon Ward: And we're fine. Because then there's space. We can
[00:25:31] Andrew Daniel: breathe. It's like, yeah, because we know it's not us. who we really are. It's still helpful in order to function as a vehicle through the world, right? It's still important to know that we are human. I'm a man because I'm a human, right? Like, this has certain rules to it.
[00:25:51] It has certain implications to it. That is, you want to be in accord with that, right? You want to be in relationship with that. [00:26:00] And You know that you're more than that, that this isn't only you. And so this is where I think a lot of some of the Eastern wisdom and maybe New Age sort of philosophies get distorted.
[00:26:13] Um, because they're like, Oh, I'm not my body. Oh, I'm just up here. I'm, I'm this ephemeral being. And then guess what happens is that you lose touch with all of reality. You, you're ungrounded. You can't. Manifest in the real world, um, because this is it. And so nothing ever works by rejecting the identities.
[00:26:36] You know, so this work is in one way, it's subtractive. What we are removing, what is not us. And at the same time, we're integrating all aspects of ourself. And that's where we have the shadow work is rather than rejecting that. Because the subtraction isn't rejection. The subtraction is stopping. And so we [00:27:00] stop rejecting ourselves.
[00:27:03] Right? And so that gets into the shadow work and other stuff. But back to the hierarchy of change, is that the more we dissociate and reject that hierarchy, we have troubles too. Because we can't just say, Oh, I'm just... I'm God. Okay. Great. Well, now what? There's so there's this great, there's this great Zen phrase that's, um, first enlightenment then the dishes.
[00:27:35] And I love that because it's, Oh yeah. Just because you become enlightened or have an awakening, you're still here, right? There's still life to do. And you're how enlightened or awakened are you really if you're out of relationship with your humanity. in the day to day world. [00:28:00] So that gets into more of the spiritual aspect, but this work has that full range.
[00:28:05] Instead, I wanted to take those spiritual truths and make them practical and applicable because I know they're true and they have tremendous value, but how do you actually apply those things to your life in order to get the results?
[00:28:23] Brandon Ward: Fantastic, man. Well, and you mentioned it too, which I think is interesting. You mentioned earlier in that the component of a vehicle and. Because something, you know, drives me nuts. The word transcendence. I'm going to transcend the material. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to transcend the earth. You know, I'm just, I'm too much of an enlightened being to exist on this Neanderthalic nomadic way of humanity.
[00:28:48] I'm just above all this. Yeah. We
[00:28:49] Andrew Daniel: call that a, we call that a spiritualized ego. Oh gosh,
[00:28:53] Brandon Ward: it's the worst in California. You, I know you experienced it in LA. Not only did I
[00:28:57] Andrew Daniel: experience it, I did it myself. So [00:29:00] that's how I know
[00:29:01] Brandon Ward: it's, well, and I, dude, I've, I've been at points there too, where you, you, you see there's an elitism to yourself and what you're, how you view others in the world, but as, as you progress in the work, you realize that that's, that's not like, that's not going to get us where we really need to be.
[00:29:18] And the word vehicle, I think is important because. Once you understand this, that we are the avatar, we are the, the commander of our existence, everything becomes a vehicle. You, you said author, you know, you're talking about you as a spiritual teacher, like those are vehicles for you to express your true self in the world.
[00:29:36] Like, just, just like our physical body, our voice. Everything is a vehicle for the expression of that true self. And when we, uh, when we can view it as a vehicle, there is a sense of separation. Like I'm not in my car when I'm driving it. I don't all of a sudden become Toyota. Like I'm just, I'm using it as a means.
[00:29:54] Andrew Daniel: But, but it's still an extension of yourself when you're driving.
[00:29:59] Brandon Ward: Like we're [00:30:00] still behind the wheel manning it and I'm taking, it's, it's taking me in a way where I want to be in a, in a more efficient manner, all of those things. So it is an extension of my desire, right?
[00:30:08] Andrew Daniel: My intention. And this is, this is also, you know, it's like, it's so funny because a lot of, in a lot of religions, this would be blasphemy, but it's really it.
[00:30:21] If you think about Christianity, God made. Man in his image man is an extension of God and God's will and so our true self is People always say yeah, but you know you you You know your will is is not as grand as God's will and all the stuff So so I'm gonna talk about this for a second because this is interesting because there there's this conflict and there's this certain conflict of Oh, all right.
[00:30:52] So if I listen to my true self, right? If, if this is a body, me here, my persona, this is all an extension of my true self. [00:31:00] Okay. And then you say
[00:31:05] that, that could be, that can become very narcissistic, right? So this is what happens sometimes is that we start identifying to the vehicle, the V and the teachings. And so it all becomes about us. And then you have the other spiritual, right? Cause it's like, all right, you are a creator. All right. You are God.
[00:31:22] All right. Great. Okay. Um, but for a lot of people, what happens is it becomes very narcissistic. Ask me how I know, right? And so then you have this, this seemingly conflicting teaching of it's not about you. It's not about you, your ego. Surrender it to God, right? Surrender it to the Holy Spirit, you know, surrender it to that.
[00:31:46] What God wants of you is, is greater than anything you could want of yourself. And that is beautiful. Like that, that is, is. divine it is touching, but how do you rectify those [00:32:00] two? Um, because for a lot of people, they're, um, in reconcilable, right? It's like, I have to abandon myself and then submit to the will of God.
[00:32:11] It's very old Testament, old school way of seeing it with the Eastern wisdom. This is how I see it. What I found out is that, well, your true self, What if that T S equals G O D? What if you're an extension of? God in that voice. And so that will your truth, the will of your true self is the will of God or an extension of it in some way.
[00:32:46] And so it could never be wrong. Now, the problem is getting that will. Accurately, right, having it not being distorted by the ego, not being projected, not having all the traumas because when you start [00:33:00] doing all of that stuff, yeah, then it gets really distorted and you create a lot of pain and suffering.
[00:33:05] Um, and then you could even go further. Is that all right? Well, this is your will. So we have free will and we have the will to suffer if we want to. And that's okay, too. And so you can you can take this to many levels. And you start to get these conflicts between these, these principles, but I, I really don't think they're in conflict.
[00:33:27] I think that if you can move past your identity, your ego wants and desires, there's something greater than you. Identify to that. That's what this is all about. Identify to the will of God. Identify to... Your true self, you know, because that is who you really are. And then from that, it's going to inform you and it won't be in conflict, right?
[00:33:50] You're not going to do things in conflict because who you really are is in accord with, you could call it, I call it the DAO, right? Just [00:34:00] how. The will of the universe, the will of God, nature, physics, I mean, these are all kind of different words to the same thing. And so when we're, we're doing this transformative work, rather than getting caught up in all of that stuff, we want to align with that.
[00:34:20] And different people and different faiths have different ways of going about it. Um, but one of the things that I discovered in the cynosomatic work, uh, where I use embodiment and movement and video, is that that surrender to something greater than yourself needs to be surrender, not self abandonment or martyrdom, because it's really easy from these teachings to go into martyrdom and to abandon yourself and to be a victim and to give all your power [00:35:00] away.
[00:35:00] And so you, you come back and say, all right.
[00:35:06] I'm not my ego, right? There, there is, I, I want, I know I need to surrender to something greater than my ego, but you don't abandon yourself and give all of your power away in order to do that. Uh, I know, I know we're going a little off topic, but that's just kind of where it wanted to take me because it's still.
[00:35:28] It shows that when you align with the true self, this conversation is completely different than all right. Do I have decaf or caffeinated coffee today in order to be more motivated, right? It's a completely different conversation that's going to orient your life in a completely different way.
[00:35:48] Brandon Ward: Well, and Andrew, I think I love it because it's a deviation really where we because for me.
[00:35:54] I had a lot of those struggles, especially early on in my early twenties, this concept, 'cause I've always felt [00:36:00] spiritual and faith oriented. I mean, I wear a cross around my neck, not because I'm a traditional Christian, but I, I resonate, I've always resonated very deeply with the man that is Christ and the mission, the, the life that he lived.
[00:36:10] Not necessarily even the stuff that we're told in the Bible per se, but I've always been drawn to him. And that energy and the cre dose energy, right? Yes. Yep. So, But something that I struggled with early on was this concept of surrendering to the will of God. And as I've gotten older and as I've healed and done this work, I've come to realize that that there's been desires, pulls within me that have not left me, that I can't shake.
[00:36:35] I've tried to abandon them and they will not abandon me. And what I've come to realize is that. What I thought was my own will has actually, in fact, been that true self calling me forward. And for me as a faith oriented person, that's God leading my life. And what I couldn't do when I was young was surrender.
[00:36:54] I was fearful of surrendering. I thought it meant I would be no longer. I was no longer [00:37:00] here. I would lose myself. Right. Exactly. And that's a terrifying concept for people. But what, what we, what, what I learned and what we have to realize is that when we truly do align with the will of God, it is aligned to our true self.
[00:37:16] We can't imagine a better version of our life that we could live on earth. That is outside of God's will like that's the
[00:37:22] Andrew Daniel: yeah, it's it's Yeah, it's so funny too because i've had these thoughts and it's like well, what if god wants something different than what I want I don't want to do this, right? It's just it's just so funny, right?
[00:37:35] It's like this idea that this idea that what god wants for us Is somehow gonna not be as good as what we want for ourself, right, is that it's it's surrendering to that. But that's the ego, right? That's not us. That's the ego. And it does feel like annihilation. It's it's that metaphor or analogy of. Um, you know, a [00:38:00] drop of water falling into the ocean and everybody gets fixated on being the drop of water that's no longer a drop.
[00:38:08] And, but we miss out on the fact that now we're the ocean. Exactly.
[00:38:13] Brandon Ward: And we're still conscious doesn't in that space. It that. Yeah,
[00:38:16] Andrew Daniel: exactly. But it does require that death and it, that it's terrifying, but that's, that becomes more of the mystical. The, the
[00:38:26] Brandon Ward: death though, the death of the ego is a real thing, man.
[00:38:29] We all go through some form of it when we do this work. Like we, we, you, there is a point when you realize I have to shed those things. Like we've, we were talking about earlier in the conversation, the subtraction component, because our society, our culture, the way we're raised our parents. And this is not some of it, I believe is absolutely intentional, but from a parental perspective.
[00:38:53] Most parents, I genuinely believe, are doing the best that they can with what they've had, the upbringing that they've [00:39:00] had. But, we can get jacked up from, like, the way we're raised. So, that's a lot of that subtraction that we have to focus on that can be hard. Because, ultimately, what it's getting to is, is surrendering the things that are not us, coming back to surrender again.
[00:39:17] Letting go of those things that are not us, but what ends up happening is it creates space for our true self to emerge and come into the place of that. So there's, there's not an absence. There's a void for a moment, but the space is cleared, which allows that truth to come in. And what we don't realize when we're not there yet is that's where our power, that peace, that inner serenity comes is when we open, when we start to drop those things and we allow that will to fill us.
[00:39:46] We now become this just as you said we now become the ocean dude if I have the choice between a drop or an ocean Bro, it's pretty simple. Like
[00:39:55] Andrew Daniel: let's be the ocean. Yeah, but not when you're the drop Yeah, exactly
[00:39:58] Brandon Ward: right because now you're you're [00:40:00] lost in it, but it's so it is very contradictory. I mean a lot of this I think that's what makes doing this work so challenging is that if you're taking it purely from an intellectual level, so many of these concepts just cancel each other out.
[00:40:16] You can't do it that way. That's why that
[00:40:18] Andrew Daniel: feeling is so crucial. Exactly. And you have to be able to embody the paradox. Exactly. Yep. And, and I think one way to, to understand it too is kind of the, the Eastern and Western philosophies often aren't direct. Um, um, competition, right there. They're in opposition.
[00:40:42] The, the East is an identification with the divine and the West is a relationship to the divine. Those are, those are the opposite. One says you are it. And the other one says you are not it. But you have to relate to it. [00:41:00] And then, and, but what I found is that both are true. And how do you reconcile that both are true?
[00:41:06] Because I go into that place of surrendering to the will of God or communing and the beauty and the art that's made from devotion and to that mystical dimension, and I also feel and see that I am one. Tat Vamasi. Thou art that. You're it. You're the thing. You're the ocean. You're the drop. You're the whole thing.
[00:41:36] And, while we're here, there's still... And so for me, being able to embody and reconcile that fundamental paradox, you know, along with life has no meaning and like life means nothing and it means everything. Um, and also there's a great, uh, [00:42:00] quote that I think does really good with this is be noble for you are made of the stars, be humble for you are made of the earth.
[00:42:10] And it's, it's. Bringing those two together. We live in such a polarized world where everybody wants it to be either or, but when you can bring them both together, it's like east, west, uh, left, left hemisphere, right hemisphere, the masculine and the feminine, the yin and yang, bringing oneness and duality together into this non dual Advanta place.
[00:42:36] Um, it's like, Oh. Um, yeah, it all makes sense, but it doesn't make any sense until you actually experience it and embody it. And that's, that's what I love about the work that I do with the cynosomatics is that it's not theory. We don't just sit around talking about this stuff. We actually get people to experience this for themselves in their own body.
[00:42:58] These spiritual truths, [00:43:00] um, get revealed. And we're able to identify and see them through the work. And so having an embodiment is a knowing. This is why it's not about belief. I'm not talking about believing this stuff. I'm talking about knowing it. You have, once you have a direct experience of it, you know it.
[00:43:22] I don't go around sitting. Oh my God, I need to believe that gravity is going to work today, or I'm going to float off into the freaking stars. Oh my God, I got to focus. I got to do my gravity affirmations. No, it would
[00:43:36] Brandon Ward: be exhausting if we had to do that. Holy crap.
[00:43:39] Andrew Daniel: Yeah, exactly. And so that's. You know, that's why the knowing and the trust, um, has to be experienced, uh, or else you're just working on belief.
[00:43:50] Brandon Ward: That's also why you can't convince anyone else that something exists. That's why, for me, I know God exists because I've experienced God in my own way. But I'm not gonna, I can't [00:44:00] I can't show you that. I can't force you to believe those things based on that. You really do have to experience these things for yourself to understand, to anchor that into yourself.
[00:44:11] I mean, ultimately that's what it is. You end up cause you can't. That's why like changing people's minds is impossible. You can, you can share concepts and then they have to take it and run with it and apply it in their life. Otherwise, it's, it's just empty. It's, it's nothing. So, I, I love to, like the, around belief and knowing is powerful.
[00:44:36] It's the... And I love that your work is about creating those experiences of, of feeling it, of knowing it in someone's own body and their own existence, because that is how you have the breakthroughs. It's not the intellectual component. What I've learned, Andrew, for me is I've always been a deep feeler.
[00:44:53] It's when I was young, it was a huge burden. Like my family didn't know how to deal with it. It was just, I grew up in West Virginia [00:45:00] originally. So it's just like. Boys don't feel, you know, like, what is that? Like, so I was always more of like a poet, very sensitive. As I got older, I struggled mightily because I identified with that, that feminine component.
[00:45:15] I was downsizing my masculine energy, but what I come to realize is embracing my masculinity combined with my feminine energy is ultimately where I found that. That true inner peace because I had been rejecting entire parts of myself. The feeling component is so important and we're such a intellectually driven society and we don't even realize it.
[00:45:38] We think we have feelings and people mistake feelings with emotional reactions. People emotionally react to tons of stuff that is not emotional wisdom and really being connected to our feelings. And so there's a, I've got a lot of notes because I want to talk, I love the. Like we're kind of sliding into some of the narcissistic [00:46:00] components, which is really like, I think.
[00:46:03] As I've learned and have been learning more about narcissism and I want to give I want to give some kudos to you for our Chat because it's really inspired me. I've been looking into I knew of dr Loewen around bioenergenetics. I didn't realize the work that he had done on narcissism reading your book It's just like once you start to understand the tenets of narcissism and how this manifests in our world You see it everywhere and you understand why people are like you get why everyone's miserable
[00:46:28] Andrew Daniel: Yeah, and it's not what we think it's not,
[00:46:31] Brandon Ward: it's not people loving, obsessed with themselves.
[00:46:33] That's what people think. It's not that at all. Actually, it's, it's the opposite. They don't even know themselves. They actually kind of load themselves. So, so Andrew, let's, let's, let's kind of dive into that because I think that's a good segue into, into that component from, from where we are. So you, you told me when we first spoke that understanding narcissism or at least narcissism from this perspective really helped it.
[00:46:55] Your worldview. Let's kind of unpack that a little bit if we can.
[00:46:59] Andrew Daniel: Yeah. So[00:47:00]
[00:47:03] hi, my name is Andrew. I'm a narcissist All of us are all of us
[00:47:07] Brandon Ward: are all of us are all have to deal with these things,
[00:47:09] Andrew Daniel: right? So yeah, so what one of the biggest things with narcissism? Well, there's a few levels here, but one of them that I think, uh, really gets in our way is that we think it's always someone else.
[00:47:26] There's very little literature on helping people who are doing narcissistic things stop. Almost 99% of it. You go on Amazon, you look all the stuff up. It's how to deal with a narcissist, how to recover from a narcissist. Um, and that's fine, right? Like that's really important. There's a lot of narcissism.
[00:47:50] I've had many, many clients that come in who had narcissistic parents and it's textbook. I see exactly what that results in. And so [00:48:00] that's, that's really important. Um, however, what is very little. out there is on how do we address our own narcissism. Now, it doesn't mean this is narcissistic personality, borderline personality disorder, whatever the hell.
[00:48:18] This isn't some DSM thing. Um, everything that I talk about is, um, you know, it's not a medical diagnostic. It's a real world. So, I don't, I spend a lot of time in the book redefining things. Because the definitions that a lot of people have don't work. They may be textbook definitions, but they don't work.
[00:48:44] Um, and so narcissism and victim, being a victim, is one of those. And so I spent a lot of time really defining, redefining what responsibility is, what narcissism is, ego, true self, all of these [00:49:00] things. Because our words define our reality, right? When we go and look around, many of us... Think in words right where we're wording our way through life along with pictures and feelings and other stuff But if we only have let's say four words To define how we feel happy, sad, angry, silly, that's what we're going to be living a life within that box.
[00:49:34] Now we're going to have experiences inside, but as we define it and communicate and create things in life, it's going to be very limited. Um, So the definitions we have are really, really important. And as a side note, if you look at what's happening in the world right now, um, the definitions for things that are self evident are under attack, uh, and they're being changed.
[00:49:58] Things that are [00:50:00] self evident and obvious, um, for, Tens of thousands of years now are being put into question and confusing a lot of people. And when people don't know how to define themselves and what's going on, they're confused. It's very, very, very easy to manipulate them. So there is a, there, there is something to understand that in the world right now.
[00:50:26] Yes, it is important. What these words mean and how we define them because it creates a reality, um, and it allows us to function in the world. So with that, the definition of these things, um, including narcissism is very important. And so how I define narcissism in this work, not if you're going to see a psychiatrist, but in this work, um, you know, a narcissism.
[00:50:56] Isn't somebody who actually is in love with himself. It's [00:51:00] somebody who's in love with an image and this if you go back to the story of Narcissus and Echo where this comes from, from Ovid, it talks about Narcissus looking into a pond and seeing a mirrored reflection and so he falls in love with an image of himself There's nothing there.
[00:51:22] It's it's water. It's a reflection. The image doesn't exist, but he's in love with it and You say, okay, that's, that's fair enough, that's, those are all the people that are taking selfies in the mirrors and obsessed with themselves in the mirrors. Sure, yes, um, and it goes deeper and how it goes deeper is that when we have an image of ourselves, Of who we want to be.
[00:51:48] Oh, I'm a good person. Good mothers don't do that. Oh, good wives don't do that. Oh, a good man doesn't do that. Or [00:52:00] I'm, um, from, I'm this race or I'm this, this ethnicity. Oh, Spaniards don't do that. Americans are not like that. Or our people, right? All of these identities or even things that. Um, aren't necessarily identities, but ways that we perceive our image ourselves.
[00:52:22] Oh, I'm, I'm ugly. Um, I'm unlovable, right? We create an image of ourselves that say, I'm unlovable. I'm word unworthy. Or then. Or then we have that and we compensate. Oh, look how fucking great I am. I'm, I'm, I'm a boss, bitch. Uh, I'm a yes, queen. You know, I'm, you know, whatever. All of these things. We, we start building this image of ourself.
[00:52:47] And then, in a biblical sense, what we do is, we start creating a false idol. And then we worship the false idol. And this is our persona. This image of [00:53:00] ourself. And so, The, the problem with that is that it's not real. So we're spending all of this time and energy worshiping, um, creating, improving. I call it sometimes not personal development, but persona development.
[00:53:20] We're developing a persona. Oh, I'm Brandon. Now I'm a this person. Oh, look how great I am now. Oh, look how more confident I am. All of this stuff. And then we want to portray it to the world. Then, then, so we'll say things like. Hi, I'm Andrew. I'm a best selling award winning author. I'm the, right? We do this kind of stuff.
[00:53:38] So other people see us in a certain way and problem comes in. It's fine. You know, you have to brand, you have to do things like that. Problem comes in is when you identify with the image. It's when you think that that persona is really who you are. And so the, the problem besides it not [00:54:00] being who you are and not being real is that it's not lovable.
[00:54:04] Nothing unreal can be loved. You can't love something that isn't real. And so, what happens is, even if you manage to develop this amazing persona, right, becoming an award winning author, all this stuff, right, millionaire, successful entrepreneur, great husband, amazing lover, you know, whatever, is that even if you get that, and people love it, and you finally get everything you want, the problem is...
[00:54:32] It's not you. People fall in love or approve that image you've created. And we do that. And what the result of that is that oftentimes we feel like an imposter, right? Imposter syndrome, feeling like a fraud. That's one of the huge reasons for that. Um, and then there's this sort of empty feeling, right? It's like, Oh yeah, I did [00:55:00] it.
[00:55:01] Now what? You know, I've spent my whole life looking for my dad's approval, you know, trying to be this thing that my dad wanted. Now what? He still doesn't even love me. And I just spent all this time, and I don't even know who I am. So we abandon ourselves in the process. We don't really love ourselves.
[00:55:20] Instead of loving ourselves, we invest into this image. And then we go around life, go around life. Here's my persona. Here's your persona. Our hands, you know, my hands here is our true self. Who we really are, then our persona. But you really are your persona. We send them out into the world and they talk to each other.
[00:55:42] And what happens is there's no access to who we really are. And so these personas, what they do is that they're designed to reduce vulnerability. Right. They make us less vulnerable. They make us more [00:56:00] acceptable in society, safer, protected. But when you block vulnerability, you also block intimacy. And so you have images of ourself making love and interfacing and being in relationships.
[00:56:13] And these images have our stories, our mythologies, right? Are all the things that we think about ourselves and they come together in relationship, but very, uh, very rarely. Do the true selves come together, that vulnerable, authentic, open, intimate self coming, coming together, pun intended. Uh, and so the, the narcissism isn't just about making kissy faces in the mirror.
[00:56:43] It's about this whole process, you know, that, that we create this identity and we spend all this time. And self help and development trying to build it up in order to feel lovable and accepted. Meanwhile, we're abandoning ourselves in the process and we are not vulnerable. So we don't have [00:57:00] intimacy and then we finally get it and then we don't know who we are.
[00:57:03] We feel like a fraud. That's one aspect of narcissism. There's other aspects where we objectify others and do this other stuff. But that's kind of one of the core fundamentally different ways. Of seeing narcissism and when you see it that way, you say, Oh, you're listening or watching this now. You may say, Oh, I might be doing some of that.
[00:57:30] Okay. That's okay. It doesn't mean you are a narcissist. It just means these are narcissistic things, um, that you've learned to do, right? They're usually survival responses. And so getting honest with ourselves, you know, that's the hard part. Being willing to see this about ourselves that, Oh my God. Maybe I'm the narcissist.
[00:57:51] Okay. And then, you know, healing that scene, you know, going into all the work to, to move through that, getting to,
[00:57:58] Brandon Ward: to the core of who we are. [00:58:00] Yeah. Brilliant, Andrew. I love that. That, but that's the, the point is, is that people miss that, right? They think about narcissists as being self obsessed. They think about the grandiose, the, the egomaniac, all of those things, the way our culture talks about narcissism.
[00:58:15] Andrew Daniel: When those are all probably narcissists. Right, that's real,
[00:58:18] Brandon Ward: and those are also components of that, but, like, what, once you start to understand the roots of narcissism and what it comes from is actually the disconnect of our true self. Like we said at the top of our conversation, that's, when we create a persona like that, we're just creating more space.
[00:58:34] Exactly. For our true self, and that's the pain. And once you realize though, when you see this, that all of us have these tendencies, right, now some of them, people truly do have narcissistic disorders and they become psychopaths, like that really happens. But, it's not, it's not because that person's setting out to be a psychopath.
[00:58:55] It's almost always, like, I, Alice Miller, her work changed my life. The [00:59:00] drama of the gifted child changed my life and what, and I didn't realize it at the time, Andrew, but that was learning to separate our feelings and sacrifice our feelings to survive. Childhood is how she defines the drama of the gifted child.
[00:59:13] And so she actually did studies on, uh, Hitler and Stalin and their childhoods. And you want to talk about some brutal, ruthless. Those men had horrible upbringings. Hitler killed his mother in her birth and his father held that against him and abused him and did all these terrible things. I'm not justifying what, but the point is Hitler wasn't born and he was like, I'm going to go out and be an evil murdering maniac.
[00:59:41] It was built around and when he did it, he
[00:59:43] Andrew Daniel: probably didn't even. Realize he was being evil. Yeah, he was doing it with good
[00:59:48] Brandon Ward: intentions Like he thought he was doing what was right how many the path to hell is paved with good intentions, right? yeah, but the the whole idea is that it was the he never got a chance to He wanted to be an [01:00:00] artist right like his true Instead he became a dictator but like because the artist his true self was never honored never loved never embraced and That doesn't ideally it happens By your parents.
[01:00:13] So you don't have to do any of this. You just go out into the world naturally loving and accepting who you are and you exist as you are in a very beautiful way. But so few of us have parents that Have done this work themselves that create the space for that,
[01:00:28] Andrew Daniel: but
[01:00:31] yeah, I was just gonna say I've every single client. I've had not a single one who's had any form of childhood trauma. Um, it didn't affect them. I mean, people don't realize how much affects us growing up. Um, even if you don't consider it trauma stuff gets lodged in there. Yeah. That time your dad didn't show up.
[01:00:57] And you took it personally. You made it mean that you [01:01:00] weren't enough. He didn't abuse you. He didn't shove your head into the pavement every day. That's still something that has been with you and is directing your life. So yeah, that exactly, you know, that our parents, you know, create this. environment and uh, it does affect us.
[01:01:25] It is, it sounds very cliche. We don't have to be a victim to it, but it does affect us. It defines our life until it doesn't.
[01:01:33] Brandon Ward: Exactly. And I, and I think that's a big part of it is, is we have the power. We've always had the power and the way out is within. And and learning to love ourselves and be true to who we are and really understanding what that means and Letting go of these things because once you start to see this You see the wounds in everyone Our whole society is wounded.
[01:01:57] I mean the people that are quote unquote successful I mean all you have [01:02:00] to do is look to hollywood when you look to hollywood. Marilyn monroe is a prime example I know rfp dude for real. Um Is she was one of the most beloved actresses of all time, but inside she never felt loved. And think about Robin Williams, brilliant comedian.
[01:02:18] Everyone loves him. Commit suicide, right? Like, why does this happen if someone's quote unquote loved and adored and all these things? Because he never felt that love in himself. He never felt love for who he was. I'm sure. And as you mentioned earlier, The more we do this, the more we build our persona up, the more we're dependent on that persona, the larger that gap gets, the more pain we feel.
[01:02:41] So it actually becomes a prison. So imagine being the Kardashians. I feel sorry for them. Like they literally
[01:02:49] Andrew Daniel: get a prison. What are they going to do? Give up billions of dollars and all of that attention.
[01:02:56] Brandon Ward: I mean, if they want to be truly happy, [01:03:00]
[01:03:00] Andrew Daniel: but you know, but it's, I mean, you bring up a really great point.
[01:03:04] Um, and this is, I see this, I have clients that come in that, you know, make millions and millions or more and, um, you know, they're successful, you know, names probably if you've heard of that have gone through this work and, um, it's really interesting to see that. There's a certain kind of success, there's another kind of success of people that are very humble that always have like a beginner's mind.
[01:03:33] Those are like my best clients, you know, ones that are very successful but don't have that ego or persona. But man, when you get some people coming in, um, you know, I've had people where, Oh, gosh, there was this, there's this writer I worked with, super viral, you know, got millions and millions of followers, views, all this stuff.
[01:03:58] But it was based [01:04:00] on suffering. It was based on their pain with the opposite sex. And we were in a session and I'm like. You can either be happy or you can keep doing the work how you think you're doing it. Um, you know, but that person decided to, unfortunately, keep doing what they were doing. Um, because they didn't see, you know, that was more valuable to them than real joy.
[01:04:40] They were too addicted. Um, and for me, I've been very blessed that... Why I did all this work is because I was homeless twice. My life wasn't working. Like I was in, it was a terrible position. Um, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, but [01:05:00] because I was so desperate multiple, multiple, multiple times I had, I was, I was humbled.
[01:05:07] I didn't have to humble myself. I was humble. Life kicked you in the ass, didn't it? Yeah. Many, many, many times. And so that I was like, I have to trust this person who's showing me these things, their life works so much better than mine. Mine doesn't work at all. I have to trust. I have to surrender to this because it's just not working.
[01:05:28] Other times people come in, they're like, I got millions of dollars. There's women around me somewhere. You know, I'm not with cancer. Um, I know some spirituality stuff. And then when they get on the call and I show them, I'm like, this is your ego. This is the narcissistic stuff. This is where you're betraying yourself.
[01:05:47] This is how you're taking yourself out. You're glass ceiling on a business. Um, no, their ego just kicks it. You know, there's this. Who are you? Um, and [01:06:00] yeah, some, a lot of times it's harder to stop suffering when life is working. Uh, and when it's working very well, you have some kind of success. It's much harder to give up a million dollars a year than it is to give up.
[01:06:17] Brandon Ward: Andrew, you know, it's, I love that you say that because I've actually said that quite a bit in, in some of the content that I've created is just actually suffering and struggling without success. Lacking of success and doing this work is actually a blessing. I've told my wife many a times that had I achieved the success that I've desired for the majority of my life financially, Earlier on in my journey, I would be dead.
[01:06:38] I would be, I would be addicted. I mean, I would just be sleeping with women. I would be boozing. I would be partying. I would, I would be nothing that I am today. Yeah.
[01:06:46] Andrew Daniel: That money amplifies your current. Exactly.
[01:06:49] Brandon Ward: It's a volume knob for who you, who you currently are operating as. Yeah. And I don't, and it's, it's interesting though, because we say the word.
[01:06:58] big ego. He's got a big ego. She's [01:07:00] got a big ego. It's actually, they have a fragile, tiny ego. And that's why, like, you can't if, because when you're centered in yourself, you don't give a fuck what anyone thinks. Like you, you really don't. I mean, to the extent of sometimes it stains, right? It doesn't mean we don't feel like things can hurt, but I define who I am, what I am.
[01:07:22] Someone else doesn't define me. And so, yeah, we,
[01:07:25] Andrew Daniel: we still feel it without giving it meaning.
[01:07:31] Exactly. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that think I'm arrogant, that have a big ego, or whatever it is. They're going to say that about both of us. Yeah, about, yeah. Oh, who do you think you are to know something? Well, I know something. Do I know everything? No, but I know something. Exactly. Sure.
[01:07:47] Okay. Does it mean anything about me? No, maybe it, maybe what I know, I don't know. Okay, that's fine too. I don't wrap up my whole identity and sense of self around it [01:08:00] or use what other people do to give meaning. Someone says very hate, something very hateful to me. I often, depending on the source, you know, I've, I've had a friend who just recently has said very hateful things.
[01:08:11] Um, and I took a lot of time, said, all right, what, what's the truth in this and publicly haven't talked to him in a couple of years. Maybe he'll come across this. I did. I doubt it. But, um, yeah, he, he came across actually some of these clips that I have on the internet and just. Just said very very nasty things.
[01:08:36] It wasn't and this is somebody that's given me feedback before this wasn't feedback This was attack. It was hateful. It was petty. It was spiteful. It was cruel It was mean and so I sat with that and I went in I said, you know, is there something true in here? I asked my girlfriend. I said take a look at this No, I asked people that love me that I care about, [01:09:00] you know, tell me the truth Is there something true in here because if I'm doing something that's causing pain to somebody You I want to know.
[01:09:08] I don't want it. So it's caring, but it's different. It's not caring about what other people think about you, but it's also not caring. Does that make sense? It does. Because, because your life's not just about you. It's really easy to be, to, to turn that into a narcissistic thing and not be like, Oh, I don't need anybody.
[01:09:28] Nobody else's opinion matters, but it does matter, but I don't need to take it personal. Uh, and so I, you know, I go in and look at that and see what's something in there and see what's not. And, uh, you know, the conclusion was, you know, that person is just in a lot of pain. Um, you know, that that does not come from love for someone to have done that.
[01:09:51] They must have been in tremendous pain. So it's still hurt. Um, But it didn't take me out. You know, it was designed to take me out. [01:10:00] It didn't take me out because I have, you know, compassion because that person's in a lot of pain. If someone that loved me and maybe saw I was doing something that was off, they would just say, hey, you know, you're doing something a little off here.
[01:10:14] Brandon Ward: They wouldn't come at you attacking hatefully and being very bitter. Like, and I love that, Andrew, because it is, because you're right. It's not, we're not. We're, man is not an island. That is absolutely true. We're all interconnected, like, we need each other for everything, like, we get food, all, all the things in life that we enjoy, cars, everything, that comes from somebody else, so like, we have to recognize that we are connected, but you, you said a powerful thing though, in the sense that, When we are critiqued or given criticism or even harsh feedback, seeking truth in those things is like, that's the, the loving, humble thing to do actually is it's all right, you did that.
[01:10:55] You went around and is there truth in this? What this person's saying, am I doing [01:11:00] something that's causing harm? Do I need to adjust the way I'm thinking about some of these things? Like that's a humble. Like that's a loving approach. But if you can do that honestly and sit with that, you can grow, you can learn from it, but that's often what isn't happens, right?
[01:11:17] We start fighting with each other. We start defending our positions, our egos start battling with one another. Um, you know, I, I used to do, I was, I did a political podcast and, and YouTube channel many years ago. Horrible, I was miserable, toxic, I hated it. Um, but I used to do that stuff all the time, fighting with people on Twitter.
[01:11:37] I, I comment on things now, I post regularly. People say mean stuff to me all the time. Now, not all the time, but frequently. But I look at it just like you were saying. How if... If you're genuinely in a good place, how could you possibly go online and start screaming at a stranger and telling them how horrible of a person they are, if [01:12:00] you're really coming from a good place?
[01:12:01] Like, it's a reflection of that state, and I hate that I'm jumping beyond that because I want there's a few things that we're skipping here that I wanted to talk about, but, because I think it's important, the the reflection, the bullying component, Is a reflection of your own internal pain and we avoid the work when we go out and attack exactly like your friend did, or I guess your ex friend, or he's still maybe a friend of yours.
[01:12:27] The door's open, but I don't know. Maybe not. But I think that's, it's important to realize that the way we are, especially emotionally charged things, if we're throwing that out at other people, visceral anger at other people are out there, like that's something going on inside us. That is a signal that we need to look
[01:12:48] Andrew Daniel: to.
[01:12:49] And that's, that's how I defined a trigger. Right. We're, we're hearing this in these past, I don't know, five or 10 years. Trigger, trigger, trigger warning, trigger, trigger, trigger. And most of the time it's used in a really [01:13:00] victimly disempowering way. You know, like we're going to be talking about relationships, trigger warning.
[01:13:06] No, no. If you can't talk, if you can't listen to something about relationships, you know, we don't need to coddle you. Now, there's a lot of coddling. There's a lot of enabling. Now, if you're talking about something that, you know, it's like a PTSD thing, say, yeah, maybe, maybe a heads up, you know, you, you let people know, you know, that's fine and fair.
[01:13:26] Um, but the, the amount of enabling people do. Um, for this stuff is very disempowering. And the reason why is because triggers aren't a bad thing. They're exactly what you said, they're, uh, they're, they're directional, a light towards what needs healing. Signals. Yeah, exactly. It's showing you what needs to be healed.
[01:13:50] Because if I pick up this glass. And
[01:13:55] Brandon Ward: which is a really nice glass, by the way. I love those. I love those little the
[01:13:58] Andrew Daniel: copper or is it a mug? [01:14:00] Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a cop. I guess it's not glass. I love the cup. Yeah. Um, and there's no alcohol in it. People think there's like a, I don't know. There's some I'm drinking water or tea or something.
[01:14:11] Yeah. No, it's just water. Yeah, I've gotten on these calls and they're like, Oh, starting early today. It's
[01:14:17] Brandon Ward: mules. Usually people drink mules. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You didn't come off to me as the noon drinker type, but. Yeah, but, but if I brought it up
[01:14:26] Andrew Daniel: and you thought that association and you were maybe an alcoholic or you, you had a fear or something and you could start projecting or you could have been upset, you know, that.
[01:14:38] You know, whatever it doesn't make you wrong. It doesn't make you bad that you had that trigger. It's showing you that there's something there to heal or something there to look at, to take responsibility for. It's not victim blaming. I'm not saying, Oh, you're bad. Or no, this whole victim blaming thing. You know, it's, it's very superficial, you know, that, that, that's a very minor thing when we're [01:15:00] talking in a therapeutic sense, it's not victim blaming and saying, this is in you.
[01:15:04] I'm not doing it. I just literally took a drink of water. I'm certain that I did nothing to do. You know, to cause you pain. And so if you're feeling it, that means there's something within you existing already. Now, this requires honesty. It requires a certain level of cognition and maturity to be able to have that discernment.
[01:15:27] Did somebody lifting that glass up Really mean to hurt me if you can't tell that difference you have bigger things to address You know, it's not too hard. If you just really take a moment and say, you know what? Yeah, there's something inside of me Let's take a look And so each of those triggers for people could be an opportunity to heal to grow to learn to have vulnerability and intimacy Uh, and to transform, but instead when you enable it, when you, you hobble people and, [01:16:00] um, you know, you, you actually take away their power, um, and so that, that goes more into the therapeutic aspect, but if you think about this for yourself, all right, you have.
[01:16:11] You know, you're, you're being really angry about something that if you can think logically shouldn't create it now, if there's something that should create it, like if somebody just punched in the face and is arguing with you, yeah, maybe I don't necessarily say that's the right thing to do, but that's not a trigger.
[01:16:28] That's, that's a live emotion. That's, that's something that's happening in real time. And so you feel it and move through it. Um, but these triggers are things that we don't want to feel things that have been unresolved traumas or suppressed Um, and so what you said is is just great. You know, you look at those things
[01:16:45] Brandon Ward: well, and it's That the last bit there too andrew about even even deep emotion I've talked to friends about this too.
[01:16:53] Like my buddy got super angry, you know He told me the story his his property management company was dicking him around about the plumbing. [01:17:00] He was being nice for weeks And, and they weren't doing anything and then
[01:17:06] Andrew Daniel: maybe mine was months. Mine was so
[01:17:11] Brandon Ward: similar. Wow. Okay. So then, well, then you, you're going to be able to relate to this story because he told, you know, he was telling us a story.
[01:17:17] We were part of a coaching pod together and he was like, you know, I just lost my shit and, and, but ironically they did it and he was feeling bad and he was talking about beating himself up for losing And I was like, Matt, and at points in life. All emotions have some validity and if somebody has been dishonoring you and your family your wife You don't have a working toilet.
[01:17:40] They've been misleading you lying to you Bullshitting you like and for months bro getting angry and letting them know you're not being nice guy anymore Is it a valid response? Yeah, but if you're just flying off the handle at every little thing Someone's trying to help you and you're a dick. That's a very different scenario So that's why you can't make [01:18:00] Blank statements.
[01:18:01] Anger is bad, right? Like we have to honor the moment and the feelings and being truthful to where we are. That's again, coming back to our true expression, but it's that's the nuance of this is you can't make logical statements and boxes. Okay. Anger is bad. It's dangerous,
[01:18:19] Andrew Daniel: but everything serves a purpose.
[01:18:22] Um, and what ends up happening is people say anger is bad and so they suppress it. So no, here's what, and here's the thing. It's about feeling it. It's not about acting it out. There's a lot of times I get angry and I let myself feel the anger and in about two minutes It's through and it's gone. I'm not acting it out.
[01:18:45] I'm not at the effect of it. This is what happens. We get angry if we're out of, here's, here's, here's the truth. If we are out of relationship with the anger, that's when bad things happen. If we're in, in relationship [01:19:00] with the anger, it means it's not running us. We feel the anger, but when relationship with it.
[01:19:06] We're going to make a different choice than if it ran us, right? Oftentimes, I feel the anger and I'm aware of it. And I say, give me a second. I'm really fucking pissed right now. I don't suppress it. I'm not clamping it. You know, I let it out. I feel it without judgment because we often judge these emotions and then suppress it.
[01:19:28] Then it gets even more distorted. We're even further away. It's not about being perfect, right? It's not about you should never feel these things. Someone is doing that. That anger is there to tell you something. It's information. Understand emotions are energy, emotion. They're there to teach you something.
[01:19:49] It's informing you about something. Your emotional state is a feedback loop. It's telling you something's going on, whether that's live in person, [01:20:00] real, or something past that's unresolved. Um, or something that's in your head, you're distorting it. Maybe you're distorting it because of your beliefs in your head.
[01:20:10] So the, our emotions are a guidance system. Um, but we don't use it that way. We use it, reactivity, we dissociate from it, act it out, get hysterical. We do all this other stuff. So feeling anger is different than getting angry, lashing out at people, doing all this other stuff. It takes some maturity, it takes a little higher level of Thinking and understanding to understand there's nuance and, but once you actually get that nuance, you're like, oh, this is a nuance at all.
[01:20:42] It's like, this is me just acting out or this is me feeling it when you can get into relationship with all of that stuff. That's. That goes into the shadow work, and that's where you can start integrating, um, the resources, because the anger, if you suppress that and judge it, [01:21:00] you may find that your ability to violent, you're not able to get violent anymore.
[01:21:08] Well, what if someone's coming up to you, trying to murder you and your family, and you need to protect yourself? And unfortunately, perhaps have to, um, defend yourself and take their life. You have to be in relationship or else you are not gonna be able to do that. You're gonna be scared or terrified and you know, whatever.
[01:21:28] So the shatter, wor, shatter work doesn't mean feeling the anger and that being permission to go out and harm people. It means getting into relationship with it to heal it, to regain those resources and to learn. To listen to what it's trying to inform you of.
[01:21:50] Brandon Ward: Dude, it's, and it's, it's honoring it, isn't it, Andrew?
[01:21:52] It's honoring those things. And you said it a second ago, we live in a very judgmental society, which is interesting to me that we live in a [01:22:00] very secular world where there is no God and it's just, you know, random chaos. But everyone's so damn judgmental though, man, everyone is so critical and harsh. And it's, and for me, in a lot of ways, that's us just trying to now play the judge and jury and I'm going to hammer it.
[01:22:17] And, and, or it's your body language changed a little bit. I'm curious what
[01:22:20] Andrew Daniel: you're thinking about this. Yeah, no. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Because if you don't have, if you're not plugged into the truth with a capital T, you have to do all of this stuff to protect yourself. Right. So if, if, so for example, I, I am plugged into a greater truth than myself and my ego, the laws of man, religions, all this stuff.
[01:22:45] I'm plugged into to a greater truth. I'm, I'm not really affected by the bullshit. The government's doing, you know, here or there, this person is doing there. I don't have to control everybody. So I don't get [01:23:00] offended. And so when people are doing that, it's the lack of trust, the lack of trust in themselves, something greater than themselves, the lack of trust in other people, the people that are going around judging and doing all of that.
[01:23:15] are based in fear. Because I know when I judge, I know one of the biggest reasons I judge is to keep things out in a way. It's like, I'm judging this. Exactly. You're like, yep. I'm judging that in you because I don't want that in me, which probably is telling me I have it somewhere in me and I don't want to be reminded of it.
[01:23:35] Um, and so it's, but it's interesting. You talk about the secular aspect of it, of the lack of, um, you know, spirituality. Um, because, yeah, if you're, if you're not plugged into it, oh, well, that's what it is. Yeah, if, if you can't trust that, you rely on your ego to control [01:24:00] everything. And the ego is going to say, in, in order, I will make you safe.
[01:24:06] In order to have that safety, I need control. I'm going to control everything. And so safety based in control is false. It is not safety. When you have to go around controlling everything you say and other people say and do in order to feel safe, you are actually saying you are not safe. And so I think that having that spiritual component is very related to that.
[01:24:33] Brandon Ward: That's brilliant, man. And that's also precisely why I don't trust the government, because that same concept is manipulated. It's the same concept, but at a societal level. Trust me, I'll keep you safe, but you have to surrender. Exactly. Yeah, but I'll keep you safe. Trust me. It's like, but it's, it's interesting because, and I'm glad we're, cause we did.
[01:24:56] I'm
[01:24:56] Andrew Daniel: sorry. I want to interrupt you there. Um, cause there's, I think [01:25:00] it's, I don't know. I think it was Franklin or, Oh gosh, it was Franklin.
[01:25:07] Brandon Ward: I know what you're going to say. I'm almost certain the quote you're going to say,
[01:25:09] Andrew Daniel: but yeah, yeah. Those, those that relinquish their freedom for safety deserve neither.
[01:25:16] Yeah. It's, it's paraphrased. I think it was something in a different context. Um, Even the paraphrase is great, you know, and the ego does this. So here's the thing. This isn't just a government thing. As above, so below. As within, so without. All the stuff that you see happening in the world is a macrocosm.
[01:25:34] Well, it's, it's kind of the, the mesocosm, but it's, it's the macrocosm of what's happening in here. And so you can see the things that are playing out in the world stage also play out within ourselves, you know, so you, you hand over your, the control. And the freedom to your ego for safety. What does that mean?
[01:25:56] Okay, we're talking very vague. It means that when you meet somebody, [01:26:00] you're closed off, right? You put walls up. You don't trust other people until they prove that they're trustable, right? You do all of these things to create all these control structures because You don't feel safe. That's literally what's happening.
[01:26:17] And what happens is you're creating an environment that's actually not safe because anybody who's safe doesn't want to be in a place like that because I'm safe. I trust myself. I don't want to be controlled. I don't need to control you in order to feel safe. And so you see that practically this, you know, this stuff shows up in everything that we do.
[01:26:43] Brandon Ward: Once you start seeing it, man, it's everywhere. And that's also the scary component of the power of being able to step back and observe this stuff is you can see this stuff happening in real time though. It is, I love that you said that because it, it's, it's the [01:27:00] reflection of how unsafe people feel within themselves, because all of this, if people are that harsh and critical of others, they're only that much more harsh and critical of themselves, there's such a lack of trust within themselves, and it creates, and it's all illusion based, because no one can create the safety that we're promised outside of ourselves, it can only come from within, and I know you know that, And I know that because I walked the path where I was, I thought that you could do it the other way and you can't, you just can't, it doesn't work, it's, you're buying in, you're now living true to that persona, which is the thing that isn't.
[01:27:35] Eternal it doesn't last it's not it's we've already talked about it enough but it's wild though because this and something that I love about your perspective on victimhood and the the Is that you you look at it as a perspective a lens and that's something that I talk a lot about on my show Is the power of shifting our perspective and having a type of perspective will influence everything that we experience [01:28:00] in life and so when we take on the the victim mentality the perspective of a A victim everything is now collared from that lens and that's a dangerous it's also miserable That's why people are miserable.
[01:28:16] Yeah, but um, let's dig into some of that andrew if that's cool and dude, we're getting I one thing we're gonna do and this is i'm gonna I'm going to lob something out there because I like to because it's going to be in the public space at some point One day my friend, I will have a podcast studio and in the future In the future when you're killing it continuing to kill it and i'm doing my thing as well We will sit down together in my podcast studio and have a full like we're going to keep building on this because man It's so much fun.
[01:28:46] I can't believe we're almost at
[01:28:49] Andrew Daniel: Yeah, we're gonna have to do a round two and wrap up. We will. Yeah.
[01:28:54] Brandon Ward: But so victim mentality, looking at it from that lens, like, let's talk about some of [01:29:00] that. So I think one of the things that I love about or like the focal point that I wrote here is a lack of responsibility and how that ties into victim mentality.
[01:29:09] Like, what does that mean to you,
[01:29:11] Andrew Daniel: Andrew? Yeah. So it's, yeah. It's kind of the antithesis, it's the remedy, um,
[01:29:20] it's, it's the poison and the cure in the sense that a victim doesn't want to take responsibility. And so when they're presented with responsibility, it feels poisonous, but it's the cure. So responsibility is not self blame, it's taking ownership, right? So it's taking ownership. A victim relinquishes ownership, right?
[01:29:46] It's just somebody else did it. It's somebody else's responsibility. They point a finger outside themselves, but a victim can also point it to themselves. Oh, i'm such a this. Oh, I can't ever do it, right? [01:30:00] Oh, well, my ego does this or my body, you know, poor me, right? Self blame isn't self responsibility either.
[01:30:08] Brandon Ward: The woe is me, right? Woe is
[01:30:10] Andrew Daniel: me. Yeah, and victim blaming isn't the same as telling a victim to take responsibility either. You're not blaming the victim. You're saying, you're being a victim. You have a place here to take responsibility. It doesn't absolve the, let's say, perpetrator, whether imagined or real.
[01:30:31] No, because there are very real perpetrators that we can be victims to. It doesn't absolve them of anything. You taking responsibility for your part or how you responded to it. Or how you got there doesn't absolve someone who's done something bad to you of their part. And that's where a lot of people, I think, start freaking out because they're like, Oh, well, if, if it wasn't them and it was me, but they did this to me.
[01:30:57] And it just creates such [01:31:00] You know, they, they just go into this panic.
[01:31:02] Brandon Ward: That's more binary thinking too, isn't it? It's living in that kind of binary perspective that it's this or that. Yeah. Exactly.
[01:31:09] Andrew Daniel: Yeah. Um, and it just, it's not true. It doesn't work. You know, both people had to have responsibility. Everyone that shows up into a space has a certain responsibility of it.
[01:31:21] Um, and so going through that process of finding where we've advocated our responsibility and given up. Our ownership of what happened, the process of reclaiming all of that, responsibility is reclamation, reclaiming how we've abandoned ourselves and given our power away. That's how we stop being a victim.
[01:31:52] It doesn't undo something terrible that may have happened to us, takes all of [01:32:00] our power back. Okay, this person did this thing and they did it to me. There's nothing I could do about it. Okay,
[01:32:10] now what? Now what, or how did I get them to do that to me, or how did I get myself in a situation where that happens? It doesn't, again, you go to a club and, and maybe, you know, somebody does something inappropriate to you there and you can blame them and say all men or women are terrible and awful or whatever.
[01:32:36] Taking responsibility doesn't undo it. They still have that karma, right? They still did an inappropriate thing. And you showed up to be there. And you showed up and, you know, did what you did. So you take responsibility for that part. You can't. Take responsibility for their part. You can't do anything about them.
[01:32:54] The other option is to be a victim to it. And be miserable. And give your power away. And say, those other [01:33:00] people have more power than you do. That's the alternative. And that's a wonderful, comfortable place where you do no wrong and everything is everyone else's fault. Except, nothing in your life will change because it's up to somebody else to do it.
[01:33:16] That's the whole point. It's not about blame. It's not about... Any of this weird stuff. It's simply saying that if you want something to change in your life, it has to be something that you own. If somebody has a, uh, uh, a car in their driveway, you know, and it's rusting and it looks ugly, you can't go over and remove it.
[01:33:39] It's theirs. They have to do it. They're the owner. So, if you want to change something in your life, if you want to remove some of the rust on your car, it must be something that you own, because you can only change what you own. And so that's the whole point of it. It's not about blaming [01:34:00] or pointing fingers.
[01:34:01] It's about reclaiming the power, owning it, so you can make a new choice. So you do not have to be at the effect of life anymore. You can be the cause of your life rather than a victim to circumstance. And man, if
[01:34:16] Brandon Ward: that position is so empowering to, to take ownership of your response to scenarios, like the situation you said, and there's a quote in your book by Viktor Frankl that talks about this and his experience in the Holocaust is he, because he learned firsthand what it looks like to take everything from a human, everything possible from a human physically degrade them.
[01:34:38] I mean, you want to talk about degradation, my goodness, but the one thing that he. Focused on was the one thing you can't take from another man is their choice, their response, their perspective to situations. And that's the power that we hold. You can come from brutal circumstances, Andrew, right? But you can choose to respond to those circumstances [01:35:00] and, and go from there based on that response.
[01:35:03] That's it. Like we don't, that's the power that we hold, or you can give all your power away and say, I can't do anything about it. I can't change anything. This is what I did. Or you can pull back and go, you know what? That was an awful situation. I'll never, I'll do everything in my power to never allow that to happen again.
[01:35:20] And these are the things that I'm going to do. I'm going to be more mindful about the places that I go. I'm going to be mindful about the drinks that I have. I'm going to be mindful about the people that I'm around. I'm going to be mindful about the way I'm presenting myself to the world. Those are things that you can reclaim your power and move forward, and allow us, even in horrible situations where you are truly a victim, to be a victor over those circumstances.
[01:35:43] That's the hero's journey. And I'm, I'm so bummed, I know we've got to wrap here because it's already over. But, because the, the Where you're rolling into at this point in your book is is moving into more of the heroic journey as opposed to the victim side and it's just so important to [01:36:00] realize like how exciting it is to recognize that we hold the power.
[01:36:03] We are the heroes that we seek and we can overcome any circumstances if we're willing to embrace and hold that power that lives within us, but we just got to open to it. We've got to be vulnerable and we've got to embrace all that we are. To me, that's that's living true to our true selves. Well, dang, dude.
[01:36:22] I didn't, I did that. We kind of just did. I don't want to like, but that kind of feels like a natural stopping point, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It feels perfect. So, Andrew, based on what we've talked about so far, is there anything you'd like to add to the conversation? I mean, this has been so much fun, man. Yeah.
[01:36:38] Andrew Daniel: Yeah. I could keep going. Uh, we'll, we'll definitely have to do a part two. Yeah, because we didn't even get into
[01:36:46] Brandon Ward: the work that you do, like how you actually implement these changes and, but I think, and I was saying, I was leading, I was sharing something earlier, and when I was young, how much feeling I had, but what changed for me as I've gotten older is [01:37:00] I've developed my intellectual capacity to navigate the feeling component, because we can't be one without the other.
[01:37:06] We have, we become whole when we honor both of these sides, and so, It's important to understand these concepts at a high level and then start applying them though, because without the intellectual wisdom, it's hard to take action and change things and move without understanding. So in our next. Episode together.
[01:37:26] We'll get through a little bit of the hero's journey and then start to get into actually what you do um in your practice and also though I want to give you a moment to share a little bit about what you do because if anybody would love to work with you or Reach out to you or get involved with your work I'd love for you to share how they can do that and just kind of give your parting message if you will
[01:37:47] Andrew Daniel: Yeah, um, I think if you've liked these ideas Um, you should, uh, pick up a copy of my book, uh, Awaken to Your True Self, Why You're Still Stuck and How to Break Through by myself, [01:38:00] Andrew Daniel.
[01:38:01] I think,
[01:38:01] Brandon Ward: um, there we go, the blurry, let's see, it's coming back. Yeah, there you go. Yep,
[01:38:06] Andrew Daniel: um, yeah, that would be a great first start if you like that stuff. Um, and if there's any openings to, to, to work together, um, the work I do is very, very different. Um, so I recommend anybody that wants to actually work with me to, to read the book first because it really prepares you.
[01:38:25] Everything that we've talked about, um, pretty much, yeah, I pretty much everything we've talked about is in the book and is within just the first.
[01:38:39] It's
[01:38:39] Brandon Ward: a deep book, man. It's, it's a deep, I, I was, I was surprised. I read a lot. I was, I was taking a ton of notes. There were so many moments where I'm like, ah, yes, yes, Andrew. Yes. Like, because I just so much resonate with my own journey. And, and I, which I'm so thankful we were able to do this. If, if you are [01:39:00] struggling.
[01:39:00] And you're, you're, you don't, these concepts are still blurry or you're, you're in that suffering state, man, Andrew's work, his book, I can tell you, it will take you so much further in a way that I just, just the book alone. I can't imagine actually working with you, Andrew, one on one because it's like, I, we didn't even get into the cinematic stuff.
[01:39:21] There's so much. Yeah, yeah. Um, so I'm going to link to everything. I'm going to link to your site. I'll link to your book, obviously. Um. I look forward to our part two of our conversation. And I promise you, I'm going to make good on that live in person discussion. Wait, maybe five years from now, seven years, Andrew.
[01:39:37] I don't know when, but
[01:39:38] Andrew Daniel: looking at next year. Well, well,
[01:39:41] Brandon Ward: meaning the good point. I love that. I love it. You know what? That's let's get him and get him a little friskier. I like getting that because I wanted that studio, man. I want to sit in person together for years.
[01:39:50] Andrew Daniel: Man, that's no, I'm just, I'm going to have all new cells at that point.
[01:39:56] I'm going to be a different person. All my cells are going to be rotated in seven years. [01:40:00]
[01:40:00] Brandon Ward: And then, you know what? You challenged me a year. I like it. I like it. I'm going to try and make it happen in a year. Then when we, how about this? When we, when we purchased our new home in the Charlotte area, at some point on Lake Norman, my wife and I had been envisioning this.
[01:40:11] We're going to build a studio in there. You can come down here to North Carolina. We can go out on the lake and we can have a great, perfect. Yeah. Well, listen, Andrew, I really appreciate your time, brother. It's been a true pleasure. I will link to your work. So if anybody wants to check you out, they can go to andrewdaniel.
[01:40:28] org, right? That's your main website. Andrewdaniel. org. Yep. And then the book is again, Awaken to Your True Self, Why You're Still Stuck, and How to Break Through. So I certainly appreciate your time, brother. I look forward to a chat in the future. Thanks, man. And for all you listeners out there, I'll be seeing you soon.
[01:40:47] Cheers, y'all.
[01:40:49] Thank you for listening to Order Within. If you found the episode helpful, please consider sharing, rating, and subscribing. New episodes will be released every Thursday at [01:41:00] 11am Eastern Standard Time. Until next time, y'all.